Building a Holistic Online Practice with Master Mingtong Gu

Hey, before we get to the episode, I just want to let you know about an offer at Mirasee.co slash leak. I'm Andrew Chapman, director of podcasting here at Mirasee FM, and we've got an offer for you there for a free revenue leak checklist. That's right. If you run your own business, you can find out exactly where your business might be losing money and you may not be aware of it. So again, go to Mirasee.co slash leak. That's L-E-A-K. And you can get all the info and that free checklist. He doesn't see the online programs as boilerplate or just like, oh, well, you know, we're going to like just give you some nice videos of techniques. There's a real desire there to pretty meaningful connection with people. Hello and welcome to Course Lab, the show that teaches creators like you how to make better online courses. I'm Ari Ine, the director of growth at Mirasee, and I'm here with my co-host, Abe Crystal, the co-founder of Ruzuku. Hey, Ari. In each episode of Course Lab, we showcase a course and creator who's doing something really interesting, either with the architecture of their course or the business model behind it or both. Today, we welcome Mingtong Gu to the show. Mingtong is a Qigong master as well as the president of the Qi Center. Thanks for joining us today, Mingtong. Thanks so much. Wonderful to share with you. Awesome. So to kick us off, could you give us kind of a 30,000 foot view of yourself and how you came to online courses? Yeah, I came to U.S., studied mathematics, and then find my passion in Qigong, which was new for me, even though I was born in China. And realizing the deeper experience I was looking for, for health and happiness, for deeper life fulfillment. So I became very passionate from the very beginning. And I went to China, studied with my teacher, Grandma S. Peng Ming. And so quickly become very dedicated. And eventually, I joined the master training program, finishing the highest level of training available. And they came back to U.S. to teach. And obviously, that is kind of new for the Western culture. So it's kind of experimental. But I was an artist. So I was willing to experiment, to be very creative. And fortunately, in short period of time, realizing more and more people are ready for this. So it became my passion in life for the last 22 years. Now I've been teaching full time. So when I'm teaching, you know, in the beginning, of course, it's in-person. A lot of inter-person connection, interaction, that's, of course, continue to be important. But then I become fascinated, like, wow, what can happen by using technology? In the beginning, using video and audio recording. Then the internet become popular. I start to experiment using the internet to offer the teaching, guiding the practice, so on. So I started that like 12 years ago. Back then, the technology is very primitive, you know. The internet frozen up. The video frozen up. The audio is distorted. And you never know when the Wi-Fi may be equal Wi-Fi. So it's like, but I was really excited. I kind of realizing the potential right away. So I didn't give up in spite of technology hiccup in the beginning. Do live streaming and so many different kind of platform before Zoom existed, right? So we're then realizing, oh, the students can use this recording from the live stream to continue review. The teaching, but practice more deeply. The key is the consistency. So something repeatable. Something, you know, they can go deeper, deeper all the time. So it's a very different process. Just like you're attending a workshop, you're making notes, and then you have to do as much as possible and go home. You know, for most students, it's impossible to do that. And so I started creating these courses and then realizing many different stages of students' evolution, creating more courses, you know, level one, level two, level three, and so on. All online? All online. So it's amazing. So that's kind of my show story. Awesome. And so, and I know that you also have physical location that you teach at. So at the moment, what percentage are you teaching online? What percentage of students are you teaching in person? Like, is it majority online? Good question. So these two programs, it's like really supporting each other. So in terms of number of participants, mostly online. For example, my flagship program, membership program, that's continuing, you know, month to month. We have usually between 800,000 people. And that's this very extensive program. It's not like a recreational thing. It's like you're committing two classes every week, continuously. People can be in the membership program. They can pause for a while or come back. And they can continue as long as they want. And some of students being with me online program very beginning, that's like 12 years now. And the in-person, it's more in a small scale. People come for retreat. And sometimes we do some local classes occasionally, but mostly intensively for retreat from one week long up to like five, eight weeks long, even. People come for deep dive, deep experience, more personal interaction, connecting with the amazing center we have. It's really the nature, the land. So different kind of experience. But these two is like really supporting each other beautifully. Hmm. And so from what you're saying, it sounds like you have on the online side two parts to it. So there's the membership where people can just stay in and understanding there's ongoing learning there. And then you also have structured programs, as you said, level one, level two, et cetera, for kind of learning more deeply. Did I understand that correctly? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. That's the case. So it's like they will offer some online introduction courses, live stream. For example, would it be like eight weeks long? Okay. So it's like the whole spectrum of wisdom, healing, and qigong, some introductory experience, and practice together. Women, sound, meditation, different cosmology, methodology, have the basic important understanding. Then afterwards, we introduce them to the membership program. And that takes another level of commitment. But I'm very kind of straightforward with the people. In order to have like real result, true result, maximum result, sustainable result, takes long-term commitment. And so the membership program is the best way for me to support them continuously. So come back to what you said is like these two layers of the program. One is more like self-studying. You know, they study these teaching practice progressively. Progressively, different sets of practice, different sets of teaching. They review it. Then they're incorporating what they're learning into their theory practice, generating a consistent everyday practice. Studying maybe a short period of time, then increasing all the time and deepening all the time. So it's very systematic, progressive. And that's really important. Yeah. Because our brain cannot observe all the information just in one workshop, one section. We make all the notes thinking, oh, we understand everything. But the embodiment takes a much longer process, a gradual process, systematic progress. And the second is also important, is like live stream. So we have weekly live stream. Then I'm teaching more like spontaneously, addressing students' issues, their circumstance, their questions. Then addressing what's going on in the world, you know, winter season, different season, how the energy work in your life, in your body, in your health. And then people have also experience of like breakout session, sharing with each other deeply. So the community becomes so important. I think that's kind of a really surprise gift. As you know, you have discovered the support of the community is so important. Now it's possible through the internet. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm wondering, and I feel like community is probably part of the answer to this question. I think that the experience that a lot of course creators have is getting people to take consistent action over time is really difficult. There's often a drop-off as people go on. And so what have you seen kind of that's worked well for you in supporting people staying consistent in their practice? And again, community is probably part of that. But I'm curious as kind of what has worked well and what would you recommend to others to do? Right, right. It's all about creating true value, true benefit. And it's relatively easy to create a temporary experience, feel-good experience, a lot of learning, a lot of information, a lot of even promise. You know, kind of that's easy to do. But the difficult part is like sustaining, you know, continuously discovering deeper benefit, sustainable benefit. Increasing life quality, life experience is not like straight line. It's always up and down, up and down, up and down. That's a beautiful thing you're addressing is like how to address the uncertainty. But on the other hand, uncertainty is the only certainty in life. So not only the tool, but the support. So I think the engagement community is inseparable. No matter how much information you offer, you know, step-by-step process you offer, people need ongoing support. And obviously, it's really a greater commitment. So how to share that value, share that experience, and then the benefit can naturally come out of that. I think it's ongoing education, experience, ongoing kind of a discovery. Right. To what extent do you see the importance of having the in-person as a catalyst or kind of as a starting point versus having people go completely online? Have you found that the results for people are similar in both of those cases? So, yeah, for example, if we do retreat, yeah, both in-person and online happening simultaneously. So in terms of the deep experience, deep benefit, I would say overall it's same. But there's a particular personal, unique, interactive kind of experience. Because if they're here in person, then the connection is more intimate and the interaction happening among the community, but also on the land. You know, sharing a meal together, that kind of experience. Have a personal conversation by the fireplace or by a tree. And even like we do journaling in the middle of just kind of together in a circle and next to 500 years old tree. So it's all about connection. And I was surprised in the beginning. You know, everybody's thinking, oh, well, it must be different. It cannot be as good as in-person when you're either teaching online or, you know, receiving the teaching online. But when I'm connecting with a purpose, with energy, with a practice, and the power of Qigong is about connecting with each other beyond any kind of separation by distance, by individuality, by even time. So when I tap into that zone, so to speak, tap into that connection, then I'm like teaching same way. Whether the people in-person in-room with me or they're a long distance, you know, 500,000 miles away, make no difference. So I was like shocked in the beginning. It was like, wow, that feels really good. Very natural for me. We do virtual dance, for example, playing the music. Everybody dancing. Then everybody see in the gallery view, in the Zoom, like, oh, we're dancing together. And just that feeling is kind of so difficult to describe by words. So then your mind tap into that space, like beyond what you think is possible. And that is really a weakening experience. Opening your mind, opening your heart, opening your perspective. Thinking, yes, everything is possible. Beyond our story, beyond our perception of limited separation, so on like that. So that is exciting. More than exciting, it's like a new way of aligning the ancient teaching, the new technology together. Awesome. Abe, any questions? Do you have other thoughts, like lessons learned or advice you'd want to share with other people, especially other people who are looking also to move from teaching in person or teaching in a physical, tangible way to people who want to move online? Nowadays, like people, you know, not only want to learn something, but they want to feel connected. So if you can generate a sense of community and what is the shared experience, shared value, shared purpose that creating this community. And that's so important. And that is the process of authenticity. It's like what takes to realize what you are truly longing for, looking for. There's so much information online. Nowadays, it's like overwhelming. All kind of product, all kind of looking good, feel good kind of promise. And you have all these things, then you will be promising certain results, really being clear. What is the process takes to accomplish what you want to accomplish? I think that can make us to stand up, not only being authentic, truthful, but what is we are here about. Awesome. Thank you. Very cool. So before we wrap up, any kind of final thing that you want to share with our audience about online courses? There's so much challenges. And at the same time, there's so much potential for us to explore. I think when we're able to come together, making the commitment, connecting with each other, exploring what is possible in all different fields, including health, spiritual growth, creative projects, you know, life in general. And it's just very meaningful, very meaningful, very fulfilling. So I'm very grateful for what I'm doing, but for everybody is doing it so we can exploring the true meaning, the true value. And so I'm grateful for this opportunity to share this with all of you together. Thank you for what you're doing. Thank you. Much appreciated. So where can our audience go to learn more about you and your different courses? As you may realize, we have a lot of offerings online, in person, short term, long term. So you can go to the Chi Center website, spelled as chi-chicenter.com, chi-center.com, chi-center.com. And hopefully we can see you at some point, either online or in person, in the magical land in Santa Fe, in New Mexico. So thank you. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. Now stick around for my favorite part of the show, where Abe and Ari will pull out the best takeaways for you to apply to your course. All right, Ari, it is time for the debrief from this very successful course case study. Yeah. So, I mean, I guess, you know, one thing to maybe to start with is just the benefit of the power of thinking big, right? Like, this is a scenario where things were happening, doing in-person retreats, you know, local classes. And that's where, for a lot of people, their vision kind of ends. That could be fine if that's what you're happy with. But I think this example shows that there's a lot more that's possible, like, no matter what type of teaching you do. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he was mentioning that his flagship program is now at 800 to 1,000 monthly active participants, which is amazing. And keeping that kind of level of, and you mentioned quite a few times, talking about community, talking about the connections that he creates between people and with the community. And that the emphasis that he puts on that, which is so important, I'm sure is what is driving that number to stay so high. Because often membership programs can dwindle after not very long. Yeah. Are there any thoughts on what people can take away from this in terms of how he got to that scale that's, you know, far beyond what, you know, a lot of, of course, traders reach? Well, I think that there are a number of elements to it, parts of which are he started a long time ago and kind of was one of the first in the online face doing what he's doing. And so there are certain benefits to that, but unfortunately we can't jump in and capitalize on right now. We don't have a time machine. But at the same time, I think the, again, kind of the emphasis that he puts on community, the way that he is bringing together and bridging that gap between in-person and online is very interesting and not something that I see often. You know, usually people focus very much on one or the other, as opposed to kind of creating that hybrid experience that allows people to either be more or less committed, do what they can, but kind of meet them wherever they're at and whatever level of commitment they're at and kind of just being there for them. And of course, also giving them the tier of support, meaning the price tier of support as well, that they are ready for. Yeah. I mean, just listening to him talk about his programs, he just seemed to have a real passion for bringing some of the experience and the depth of learning you would have in the in-person program or in the in-person retreat and communicating that online. And it seems like that was a piece of it too, that he doesn't see the online programs as boilerplate or just like, oh, well, you know, we're going to like just give you some nice videos of techniques. There's a real desire there to create a meaningful connection with people. Yeah. As he said, connection is key and whether online or in person, sure, in the in-person, this is why a lot of people like to do in-person. They feel like the depth of connection that they're able to create is deeper. They're able to create bigger transformation. It seems like Ming Tong just doesn't accept. I mean, sure, the connection might be different, but he doesn't accept that the transformation necessarily needs to be different, which is really interesting. And I think a good way to look at things. And it doesn't seem to me like as you were mentioning, it's not just boilerplate copied over. It's, OK, what can I do online that will be special that I can use to support, you know, do breakout sessions, doing all these different things that will create the same level of experience for the online community. And kind of just thinking that through is really important. Anything else sucked out? There's nothing else on my list. Cool. Ming Tong Gu is the president of the Qi Center. To find out more about him and his upcoming workshops, head on over to qicenter.com. That's C-H-I-Center.com. Thank you for listening to Course Lab. I'm a Bristol co-founder and CEO of Rezinku here with my co-host, Ari Emi. Course Lab is part of the Mirasee FM podcast network, which also includes such shows as Just Between Coaches and Making It. This episode of Course Lab was produced by Cynthia Lamb. Danny Emi is our executive producer and post-production was by Marvin Del Rosario. If you don't want to miss the excellent episodes coming up on Course Lab, follow us on YouTube or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Are you enjoying our show? If so, go ahead and leave us a star review. It really does make a difference. Thank you so much and we'll see you next time. Thank you.